Alden K. Sibley and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

Collectors value "named" items, where good provenance shows who owned the item. The previous owner of one of the hats in The History Guy's collection made lasting contributions through the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Alden K. Sibley is history that deserves to be remembered.

This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As images of actual events are sometimes not available, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.

All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.

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Script by THG

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  • Essayons! Sapper!

    vtwinwild1vtwinwild1Сарын өмнө
  • Funny thing with the Pentagon, it is still an utter marvel of efficiency. No matter where you are at in the Pentagon, you can walk to any other part of the Pentagon in less than 12 minutes. It has a ring system and by walking to the center or A ring, going to the aisle you need to go to then taking the stairs to the correct floor.

    JT BJT B2 сарын өмнө
  • Fort McClellan AL named after Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan and home of the Woman’s Army Corp basic training. Home for me for a little over 2 months back in 1974 as I made my way through basic wondering all along what in the world possessed me to do such a thing. When I finally settled in I took great pride in keeping my Class A uniform in top shape and even going so far as to be outside when retreat was called! Turned out to be good times and if I would have taken my recruiters advice and become a medic I might have retired rather then getting out after 3 years! Oh well. Hindsight and all that!

    CC4 сарын өмнө
  • The criticism of the Army Corp of Engineers for the flooding from Katrina is unfair. The levees that failed were originally designed with sheet piling driven much deeper. Budget cuts forced shallower sheet piling to be installed. The water undercut the sheet piling. Also, the Army Corp of Engineers had a project for installing flood control structures that would be activated in case of a hurricane to prevent the storm surge from entering Lake Ponchitrain. The Sierra Club sued the Corp and tied the project up in the courts for over a decade until the project was abandoned. Objectively, the Corp is not responsible for the subsequent flooding.

    Roger KnightRoger Knight4 сарын өмнө
  • Another good story that intersects with the US Army Corps of Engineers, the Mt. Morris Dam. Without which the city of Rochester may not exist today. The 1972 dam came within 1 foot of the dam's spillway. If the dam gave way, Rochester potentially would have been completely destroyed, not to mention the other smaller towners between the dam and the city.

    JeffreyJeffrey5 сарын өмнө
  • Nice to know who built the John Martin dam. I grew up enjoying the fruits of his labors.

    Alan ClineAlan Cline5 сарын өмнө
  • go to hell stephen colbert

    david stinydavid stiny6 сарын өмнө
  • Although not an engineer myself, I have been approached by many engineers seeking advice on projects due to my practical experience. There was one occasion where I refused to participate in construction as I did not agree with the engineering plans. It was just a domestic pontoon on Sydney Harbour Aus but when it failed the owner sued that Engineer into poverty. However the Army Corp of Engineers combine academic excellence with practical experience and get the job done. Another fitting tribute to a hat :)

    Sean WorkmanSean Workman6 сарын өмнө
  • Essayons. Great video.

    TheRubberDuck TwosixTheRubberDuck Twosix7 сарын өмнө
  • I want to say thank for doing a fantastic job on my grandfather Alden K. Sibley My name is Janet B. Alleman.He was a great person all in one.

    Janet AllemanJanet Alleman7 сарын өмнө
  • You should do a video on the relationship of filipino nursing schools and the US Army.

    bobaddaskibobaddaski7 сарын өмнө
  • Well done!!

    Dr. WisdomDr. Wisdom7 сарын өмнө
  • 23 years serving proudly as an Army Engineer

    Daryl TurnerDaryl Turner7 сарын өмнө
  • @TheHistoryGuy what do you mean when you say “since antiquity” or just “antiquity” when talking about something historicak

    Sidney MccarthySidney Mccarthy8 сарын өмнө
  • I haven't been watching The History Guy for very long, but I wondered, what was with the wall of hats? Thank you. This was quite interesting. I never knew that military had such a background with engineering. I have worked as a draftsman for a land surveyor for 37 years and have worked on many projects for civil engineers over that time. I learn a lot from watching The History Guy. Our local talk radio has a game every Thursday called Political Trivia. So far I've won 9 times! Thanks for the history lessons, keep it up!

    Betty WatsonBetty Watson8 сарын өмнө
  • As a native New Yorker, we did not call it Bedloe Island, but Bedloe's Island.

    Donald KaspersenDonald Kaspersen8 сарын өмнө
  • There are other Sibleys who left their mark on the US Army. One is Henry Hopkins Sibley, another West Point Graduate. He lent his name to a tent and stove that were used for army bivouacs. He fought in the Seminole and Mexican American wars, and served as a general in the Confederate army, doing battle at the Glorietta Pass in New Mexico. His distant cousin Henry Hastings Sibley was voted the first governor of Minnesota. And although not a graduate of West point, he rose to the rank of Brevet General Major while fighting against the Sioux in the 1860s

    Ronald RaygunRonald Raygun9 сарын өмнө
  • I'm a Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech and a hell of an engineer.

    Timothy's worldTimothy's world9 сарын өмнө
  • Your wrap-ups always get me in the feels when you talk about our service members. I appreciate the way you respectfully address their service.

    Read with LollieRead with Lollie9 сарын өмнө
  • uh oh, Rhodes scholars, RUN!

    Sam LaVerneSam LaVerne9 сарын өмнө
  • 1st ENG THE OLDEST MOST DECORATED ENGINEER BATTALION IN THE WORLD! BEEN IN EVERY BATTLE, CONFLICT IN U.S. HISTORY EXCEPT THE KOREAN WAR, THAT'S WHY IT WAS IT WAS KNOWN AS THE "FORGOTTEN"WAR! LOL TKS FROM AN ENGINEER!

    James SmithJames Smith9 сарын өмнө
  • I know that patch I wore it in 1976 when I was in Germany

    Scott HanselScott Hansel9 сарын өмнө
  • My husband, Melvin L. Hansen Jr., a few decades plus eight years older than me worked, quite proudly, for The Army Corps of Engineers for 35 years before retirement. Starting out, he was a supply officer for the dredges carving out the shipping channel on the Columbia and Willamette rivers in Oregon.Eventually, He was head of Personal and Pay Management in several districts including Portland OR, Jacksonville FL, Los Angeles, and finally Seattle. He was proud of his career, having first been part of the US Army, then Air Force, and finally the Corps. THG and his presentation here reminded me of why my husband of 18 years was deservedly proud of his accomplishments. Thank you once again for reinforcing my appreciation of these bits of History, that deserve to be remembered!

    Christian-Michael HansenChristian-Michael Hansen9 сарын өмнө
  • Wow just wow dude wow...

    American CitizenAmerican Citizen10 сарын өмнө
  • There is a difference between the Army's Engineer Regiment and the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE). As an engineer officer I have been a part of the Engineer Regiment since receiving my commission 25 years ago, but I was only briefly assigned to USACE during those 25 years. I know many Soldiers who are Engineers and have never served with USACE. Essayons!🇺🇸👍

    Mike TrofinoffMike Trofinoff10 сарын өмнө
  • I have worked doing large scale ground improvement projects from Panama to Alaska. Of all the entities we worked/ for (including companies such as Bechtel etc), THE most knowledgeable and professional was the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Many times we had to explain, design and instruct companies on our methods and processes. But never The Corps. Many times they seemed more knowledgeable about our work than we ourselves. Incredible organization. Great piece, thank you

    Dirk DitmerDirk Ditmer10 сарын өмнө
  • Thank you for breathing life into history, you make it fascinating

    Brett WentzBrett Wentz10 сарын өмнө
  • As an Army 12B, was surprised and delighted to see civilian USACE in Iraq and Afghanistan - Essayons!

    Lafly84Lafly8410 сарын өмнө
  • USAEOCR 1969 graduate, Ft. Belvoir, VA.

    Data SailorData Sailor10 сарын өмнө
  • Excellent presentation that is worthy of recognition. Thanks for posting and stay safe.

    Mike CurtisMike Curtis10 сарын өмнө
  • i have a helmet that was graduation present from a teach of mine (mrs joan gray) it belonged to her father lt william lewis gray of the 1257th conbat engineers which he wore on the 3rd wave of d-day, through france, in belgium during the battle of the bulge, and on into germany.

    milcoll73milcoll7310 сарын өмнө
  • History Guy, thank you for remembering the Army Corp of Engineers, they deserve it! Their motto Essayons - Let Us Try! Did you know they are the only branch of the Army that has its own uniform button?

    George Paul FarrisGeorge Paul Farris10 сарын өмнө
  • A good article to do on the Corps of Engineers would be the Old River Control Structure. If that fails the Mississippi will divert leaving Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and most of the petrochemical plants in the south high and dry.

    Phil GiglioPhil Giglio10 сарын өмнө
  • I have been learning so much about historical events that I’m not familiar with through your channel. Thank you for the wonderful content.

    Jenna OlbermannJenna Olbermann11 сарын өмнө
  • Wow ! Thats one impressive resume!! Hats off Alden k Sibley !

    Doug daysDoug days11 сарын өмнө
  • The U.S. army corps of engineers should be renamed as U.S. government engineers,as the army should not be expected to carry out civilian roles.

    Chen Fawn MengChen Fawn Meng11 сарын өмнө
  • My father is a naval academy graduate, civil engineer, and his brother is an architect who both had careers in the Civil Engineer Corps of the U. S. Navy, serving with the Seabees in the Pacific, Antarctica, Europe, and Vietnam. Please consider doing an Episode on the CEC and especially on the Seabees. They are a fairly unknown group of some of the best and most skilled military personnel our country has. Their history is very interesting, admirable and unique, the work they do all over the world is remarkable. The Seabees have a great museum in Port Hueneme, California and there are people there who can give you much valuable information on their history and ongoing missions. If you're interested, look up Capt. R.E.Quinn Jr. CEC (retired), he helps run the museum and has over 60 years of experience with the Seabees, and an encyclopedic knowledge of their history.

    Bob QuinnBob Quinn11 сарын өмнө
  • It is my understanding that Washington Roebling, who, along with his wife Emily, brought his father’s dream of the Brooklyn Bridge to life, also participated in engineering projects vital to the Union during the US Civil War.

    KombatBardKombatBard11 сарын өмнө
  • "DAMN ENGINEERS!!!!" German officer during the Battle of the Bulge who was stopped by engineers who took out bridges and roads to halt their advance.

    Evin ChesterEvin Chester11 сарын өмнө
  • That was very interesting, and I did not think it would be before I began watching.

    D FENSD FENSЖилийн өмнө
  • Anybody else notice that the portrait of young Robert E. Lee looks like Rock Hudson in his heyday??

    David KermesDavid KermesЖилийн өмнө
  • Great Job, History Guy on General Sibley, RCE. Now let's enjoy one on an engineer from 90 years earlier: John Charles Fremont. Thanks

    ROGER CLEGGROGER CLEGGЖилийн өмнө
  • Excellent presentation. Steward of History, sounds like an Elizabethan order, does a shovel come with that? Lol

    Daniel HammondDaniel HammondЖилийн өмнө
  • 1:15

    Jons LGJons LGЖилийн өмнө
  • Holy crap history guy has the crystal skull. Better watch out for Indiana Jones.

    Austin JolleyAustin JolleyЖилийн өмнө
  • And the Engineers will always be the unsung heroes.

    William WisemanWilliam WisemanЖилийн өмнө
  • Love your channel. May I suggest a well loved and quirky, but tough Royal Australian Navy Skipper named Hec Waller. A true hero who went down with the HMAS Perth alongside the USS Houston in the battle of the Sunda Strait. The whole story, and his role in the Med with the "Scrap Iron Flotilla"; old Australian destroyers is remarkable. Love the history you tell.

    William WisemanWilliam WisemanЖилийн өмнө
  • I’m

    Beverley WadeBeverley WadeЖилийн өмнө
  • You’re doing a fine job of it, sir.

    Joey CookJoey CookЖилийн өмнө
  • My grandfather was Robert E Lee Here's the hint lol Glad you found it, good job🤑

    Otter PopOtter PopЖилийн өмнө
  • Lance, you're probably tired of hearing this, but since I worked in museums for over 25 years, please, PLEASE don't handle those great artifacts so cavalierly. Use cotton gloves. Please? It protects the artifacts from damage cause by the oils in your skin. Thanks.

    Lancer525Lancer525Жилийн өмнө
  • A far less flattering presentation of the US Corps of Engineers exists in the well documented 1986 book "Cadillac Desert" by the late Marc Reisner. He the most distinguished and knowledgeable American on water resources of the 20th century. I will maintain my definition of the Corps history based upon Reisner's massive historical knowledge. Not this video. Hell he even predicted in 1986 the levees of New Orleans breaking during a future hurricane.

    Jorge CallicoJorge CallicoЖилийн өмнө
  • Colonel Sibley's dams are being used as Weapons now. They have functioned perfectly for almost a hundred years. Now to dams in Michigan have failed because politicians demanded that the floodgates be kept closed during the winter time and they could not draw the reservoir down for the spring flood. They are going to try and blame it on the dam and the managers of the dam. But there is a court order from the Michigan State Attorney's office that's demanding that the gates be kept closed and the lake be kept in the up position all winter long supposedly to protect freshwater mussels. Something needs to be investigated here, unfortunately that government agency that would be used for that has been turned into a group of feeble blithering idiots. Where did the FBI go? Saboteurs are destroying our dams and they are called Democrat politicians. The same people want to keep Americans lock up at home today. We want to go to work. Maga 2.0 freedom vote like the fate of the world depends on you because it does personally depend on you. Vote vote vote or become communist

    will friarwill friarЖилийн өмнө
  • As always enjoyed your video on the army corp of engineers immensely, big fan. In this video you stated that the use of atomic bombs ended Japan's resolve in WWII. However prior to the use of atomic weapons the US had destroyed a number of Japanese cities and actually caused more destruction and casualties with fire bombing than the 2 atomic bombs. The anticipated entry of Russia into the conflict probably also played a factor in Japan's decision to surrender. I think atomic bomb destruction was a major factor in Japan's surrender but not the sole reason.

    Brett SmalleyBrett SmalleyЖилийн өмнө
    • @Paul Redinger He certainly suspected but AFAIK all we did was deny them fuel after Japan invaded IndoChina. Unlike Germany they had no coal to convert to gasoline (yes that is a thing,.something the Germans cooked up after they lost access to the oil fields). Japan had then taken control of China so they could have gone down this route too but they chose to involve us.That was dumb, Hawaii had no petroleum asserts and, but we did have the largest untouched manufacturing base in the world. There was never a realistic plan to conquer America.

      Doctor SmithDoctor SmithЖилийн өмнө
    • The fact that 1 plane, 1 bomb, could destroy 1 city was the defining reason. It took hundreds of aircraft to firebomb and destroy those other cities. The Japanese didn't know if we had 1 or 100 of those bombs left. The Russian invasion was the icing on the cake, if you will. The choice was surrender or extermination. Without the emperor of Japan the war would of continued. The military wanted to keep fighting. They still thought if enough American blood was shed they could still not have to surrender unconditionally. And yes, FDR knew what was going to happen at Pearl harbour. We steered the Japanese to attack us. We were reading the military and political messages. All the things were"delayed " getting to the commanders at Pearl harbour. Should we feel bad about the atomic bombs being dropped? NO!!! It was Japanese planes, ships, weapons, and Japanese personal that manned that equipment. That bombed the USA, the British, and other nations in the Pacific WITHOUT A DECLARATION OF WAR!! And look up what unit 731 did in China.

      Paul RedingerPaul RedingerЖилийн өмнө
    • Like most things in history it's all about timing. More conventional war would have cost more American lives. We told the Japanese what we had and asked for their surrender, they failed to give it. We did not ask for this war but what you dish out we give back.

      Doctor SmithDoctor SmithЖилийн өмнө
  • He mentioned UNR! WOOO! GO WOLFPACK!

    Cliff CampbellCliff CampbellЖилийн өмнө
  • One of my favorite episodes. Thanks History Guy!

    Marcin HolstMarcin HolstЖилийн өмнө
  • I have to say. I so truly enjoy this channel. Your consistency in quality is unparalleled. Thank you for your well-researched and explained stories. I find much solace in watching your MNthe channel.

    Indoor ManIndoor ManЖилийн өмнө
  • Sure. He's wearing a coat and bow tie. But do you think THG is wearing pants? We will never know.

    ProBroDougBProBroDougBЖилийн өмнө
    • LOL! Or even care? Thanks for today's laugh-out-loud comment.

      LizJLizJЖилийн өмнө
  • Would you consider doing your show on PBS?

    Josh TibbettsJosh TibbettsЖилийн өмнө
  • As I work in a USACE project I found this lesson very enlightening, the west would be a very different place if not for the water and Hydroelectric power much of which is provided by the USACE.

    TheJHMAN1TheJHMAN1Жилийн өмнө
  • I love your Channel it’s one of the only things that entertain me on MNthe keep it up

    Daniel HagemanDaniel HagemanЖилийн өмнө
  • Bulgarian civil engineer here disign steel strucktures. Respect!

    vanvanvanvanЖилийн өмнө
  • I appreciate the bow tie being an army/eagle pattern. Way to go, History guy!

    Chris FrielChris FrielЖилийн өмнө
  • You forgot about the Alaskan Highway. An engineering feat that was said couldn't be done.

    Jerry 1911Jerry 1911Жилийн өмнө
  • Just a quick amend - the Oxford college you mentioned: Magdalen, is pronounced 'Maudlin'.... there's one in Cambridge too. Love your series of historical anecdotes!

    Dave RootDave RootЖилийн өмнө
  • 6:44 That looks like a Greek with a sword through his forehead.

    blindbrick blindbrickblindbrick blindbrickЖилийн өмнө
  • The Army Corps of Engineers has literally destroyed the Great State of Florida

    Mr.NaughtyPantsMr.NaughtyPantsЖилийн өмнө
  • EXCELLENT

    Terry StephensTerry StephensЖилийн өмнө
  • The Brits had R.E. in the Napoleonic Wars

    Hoa TattisHoa TattisЖилийн өмнө
  • You're pretty good when you can make the history of a hat interesting....

    James GibbsJames GibbsЖилийн өмнө
  • Truly unsung heroes very few appreciate in both times of war and tremendous civil projects behind the scenes. Thank God the unions weren't involved to double the time and expense!

    UsJoeUsJoeЖилийн өмнө
  • One of the greatest channels I have found on you tube. Considering becoming a patreon supporter. As requested, for a future episode I would like you to present your study of the Cape Kennedy VAB (Vehicle Assembly Building). I have read and came upon some information through the years about it’s spectacular characteristics, I would love to know more of. Thank you

    Luc LavioletteLuc LavioletteЖилийн өмнө
  • An episode about the "Pineapple Pentagon" would be great. A lot of history wrapped in up in that place, The area is incredibly beautiful also. Multiple scenes in the movie Pearl Harbor were filmed around there to include "Palm Circle" another great place with history. Thank you, I really enjoy your program.

    YooyoolahYooyoolahЖилийн өмнө
  • 70th Engr. Co. (Topo) 81T. We Succeed

    YooyoolahYooyoolahЖилийн өмнө
  • I have been watching your videos for a few years. They are very interesting and informative. Please keep it up. I have gotten my kids to watch them also.

    Gregory V. Ziman SrGregory V. Ziman SrЖилийн өмнө
  • I was a combat engineer in the army. I really appreciated this video. Thanx history guy

    Shane's TrainsShane's TrainsЖилийн өмнө
  • I know this is petty, and in no way detracts from the excellence of this video. But Magdalen Collage in Oxford is actually pronounced 'Mawd-lin'... but I am just a pedantic old git! :)

    Dennis MillerDennis MillerЖилийн өмнө
  • This episode reminds of the joy i have visiting the Army Corps of Engineers museum in Chesapeake City, MD along the C & D canal which joins the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware River. Thank you.

    stan sheldonstan sheldonЖилийн өмнө
  • I don't know if Sibley was specifically involved, but there's a Corps of Engineers constructed dam in the foothills east of us. Every five or six years, we'd have a heavy snowpack in the Sierras and when it would melt (either due to spring runoff or a warm system dropping rain on the snow, and we'd have flooding-most famously two floods in as many weeks. Since the dam was completed in 1962, we haven't had even minor flooding.

    almostfmalmostfmЖилийн өмнө
  • As a former military engineer (weapon effects and vulnerability analysis), I always like to remind people that "there are many different types of veterans".

    cpnscarletcpnscarletЖилийн өмнө
  • Need to put bro on globil warmimg

    StarlightEaterStarlightEaterЖилийн өмнө
  • Party chief in an engineering company myself. Perhaps the history guy could allow us to traverse through the history of surveying, although some of his prior shows did include surveying in them, from it's very inception. Engineering and surveys built the modern world and civilization because without it the first time two landowners had an argument about their property lines it would have been 'Domesday' without it recorded in the Books.

    SadWings RagingSadWings RagingЖилийн өмнө
  • My Great Grandfather was an Army Engineer in WW2 he served on Saipan and Okinawa.

    HighIQretard BearHighIQretard BearЖилийн өмнө
  • Army Combat Engineers Desert Storm Veteran here. Essayons!

    Carlos GutierrezCarlos GutierrezЖилийн өмнө
  • Is it true that Civil Engineers have to take an extra 12 credit hours in etiquette?

    JBJBЖилийн өмнө
    • Yup! And mechanical engineers take a similar number of credit hours in robotic facial expressions and body motions.

      LizJLizJЖилийн өмнө
  • My Dad served with the Corp in WWII from Omaha Beach to the crossing of the Rhine. I worked with the Corp as a civilian cleaning the islands of the Susquehanna River after Hurricane Agnus caused major flooding in central Pennsylvania. My hat is off to the Corp of Engineers. They are quite amazing in what they did and do.

    wkmetz3wkmetz3Жилийн өмнө
  • Get them started on the border wall with the failed state formaly known as Mexico.

    Veronica EvansVeronica EvansЖилийн өмнө
  • Hello Mr History Guy, I have a story you can tell, howabout the Story and founding Fathers of the Marine Corps, and how they where started .What do you Think?

    Mark AulMark AulЖилийн өмнө
  • I would like to see you do something about MAAG-V by itself. Very little is said about the U.S. involvement in Viet Nam before the introduction of large number of combat troops following the Gulf of Tonkin resolution.

    marcressmarcressЖилийн өмнө
  • Good One Marty

    Dale BelsethDale BelsethЖилийн өмнө
  • Your best vid yet.

    Andrej MucicAndrej MucicЖилийн өмнө
  • my Dad was a combat engineer in Vietnam. His primary job was running a rock quarry. He was involved with building Bluestone damn in WV, in 1964, when he met my mom, and they married in '65

    MeMyself &iMeMyself &iЖилийн өмнө
  • In 1980. I traveled to New Orleans. I was shocked to learn, most of the area was under sea level. My birth place being Pennsylvania, the state of many streams. Rivers rise, tides run high, prepare accordingly. Locals then said , moneu was wasted, and not used on levy's.

    Cynthia BeckenbaughCynthia BeckenbaughЖилийн өмнө
  • I have watched many of your videos and appreciate all of what I have watched your presentation is impeccable and and a lot of times I'm wanting more .In 15 minutes you can pack a lot of interesting facts about our history and always a thumbs up from me thank you

    James SalwasserJames SalwasserЖилийн өмнө
  • One of the most profound and deep statement I've heard, *an item that is named we know that through GOOD Provence who owned that item and that way when you own the item you don't just became the stewart of it's history and the era which it's represents but also the person who owned it and their history* So much can be decipher just from this statement as long as people aren't afraid of *good Provence*

    SoniYahSoniYahЖилийн өмнө
  • I have a Ukrainian Sub Captain's hat.

    TranscendianTranscendianЖилийн өмнө
  • Speaking of Army. The army is bringing back the old style uniforms, maybe a good video to show the history of the army's greens.

    Brett SmithBrett SmithЖилийн өмнө
  • So interesting

    DeonaDeonaЖилийн өмнө
  • I was hoping to hear a mention of Sibley State Park in Kandiyohi County Minnesota. Situated on Lake Andrews it was within 12 miles of where I grew up in the 1950s. Our family spent many weekends enjoying crappie fishing, water skiing, swimming, and late night Fireside Chats. As I got older, I also learned to enjoy some of the fine young Minnesota bred girls that we're just growing up at the time. Yes, teens enjoyed sex in the 19 50s and 60s.

    David KniggeDavid KniggeЖилийн өмнө
  • As a lover of American history, I appreciate what you do the further the education of the American public and especially for those of us who choose to be educated

    David KniggeDavid KniggeЖилийн өмнө